Be Reasonable: Episode #022 – Jim Humble


This month on Be Reasonable we dip back into the archives for one of the most troubling interviews I’ve ever been involved in.

Back in 2010, reports emerged about a product called Miracle Mineral Solution – a pseudomedical panacea which was touted as a treatment for cancer, AIDS, malaria and Crohn’s disease, yet in actuality was much closer in chemistry to a form of industrial bleach. The founder and main proponent of MMS was Jim Humble, whose name quickly began to appear in the press, and who turned down interviews with the BBC and with the Guardian. He did, however, agree to speak to Hayley and me for our old podcast, Righteous Indignation.

It’s an interview that affected me greatly, and one I think about regularly, which is why I’d like to present it now, for the first time, in its unbroken entirety.

Play
  1. #1 by Declan on October 27, 2014 - 23:32

    I remember this from the time and it comes to my mind too every so often.

  2. #2 by Pam on October 30, 2014 - 02:41

    Listened to this today. Terrifying interview. Good on the hosts for letting him tell his side of things, as it showed just how crazy his claims are in reality.

  3. #3 by Stephen on October 30, 2014 - 09:53

    I hadn’t heard it before. I had heard of MMS on account of the rise of Rhys Morgan in the skeptical community.

    What Jim Humble said was horrifying. It shows starkly the death and destruction that can be caused by a quack cure and the wilful blindness to evidence of the quack behind it.

  4. #4 by Chris on October 31, 2014 - 03:50

    Pam: “Terrifying interview.”

    This is why I did not listen to it again. I remembered the rage I had with his nonsensical pontifications. Though it does show the profound patience and gentleness of both Marsh and Hayley. I am not that nice.

  5. #5 by erique on October 31, 2014 - 10:04

    Digging up old interviews from RI now? Jeez, skepticism is getting lazy.

    As for JH, well, good to see the exposure by self-indulgent vociferous self-righteous ‘skeptics’ got him to stop his lunacy…oh but wait, he didn’t…since the ‘exposure’ of MMS all that has happened is the profile of JH and self-important ‘skeptics’ has risen, meanwhile, people are still essentially drinking bleach…

    If you really can’t be bothered to make new episodes, then scrap the podcast, Jebus, there are enough ‘skeptical’ podcasts out there polluting the internet, no one will miss it…especially if all they have to do is listen to the back catalogue of RI -in my opinion the best skeptical podcast there has ever been…there’s a thought, just host old episodes of RI…

  6. #6 by Chris on October 31, 2014 - 23:04

    ” Jeez, skepticism is getting lazy.”

    Or busy. The “Skeptics with a K” have come out every two weeks for years. There was probably a legal hiccup with the last one.

  7. #7 by heather on November 3, 2014 - 19:59

    Hi guys we are taking these lunatics down as now they are targeting autistic kids, please check out our website and support us thanks

  8. #8 by Gabol on November 5, 2014 - 12:25

    You’re doing a service by airing this again – Humble is still out there and still dangerous. My father is into this MMS stuff – and tried to get me to take it. My mother is dead because she tried to treat a tumour with “alternative” medicine. My uncle died a very painful and awful death refusing all hospital treatment for cancer while paying £££s to some German quack, and even more £££s to have all his fillings taken out (believing, at one point, they were the cause of the cancer). Someone yesterday said to me “I don’t do doctors” – they take homeopathy instead. Post this interview every other month as far as I’m concerned.

  9. #9 by Michael Larkin on January 5, 2015 - 12:38

    Hmm. I have checked out some Web resources. See for instance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnCiX5blI-Y

    Frankly, I don’t know what to think. Why would this mother lie? What’s in it for her, or the other mothers of autistic children who’ve tried this?

    Every now and then, something new and unusual actually does work, e.g. antibiotics in the treatment of stomach ulcers where caused by helicobacter.

    I’m reserving judgement pending further investigation.

  10. #10 by Michael Larkin on January 6, 2015 - 05:47

    Well, I’ve checked out a couple more videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO6IBZleEU4

    This covers more detail of the protocol involved:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jY2yab0uLc

    I’m intrigued by this. So I’ve ordered some of the stuff and will be testing it out for myself. I’ll get back when I have more to report.

  11. #11 by Marsh on January 6, 2015 - 09:16

    Michael – I’d urge you to reconsider. MMS is very clearly dangerous, with users reporting many ill effects from taking it, including vomiting and severe pain.

    While we believe in an open commenting policy here at the MSS, including publishing comments that are critical of us, but we cannot morally or legally advocate people do dangerous things.

  12. #12 by Lulze Davidson on January 28, 2015 - 10:15

    Proof the Red Cross cured 154 cases of Malaria with MMS, in a test they did in Uganda 2012, that the Red Cross tried and failed to cover up, then, later, when information got leaked to the internet, tried to “dissociate” themselves from:

    Video #2, Leaked July 2014.
    Klaas Proesmans, CEO of Water Reference Center (founded by two national Red Cross socities) acts as a narrator in this video. This is the same Proesmans that tried to say he was in China when the “alleged” study took place, in his response to video #1:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrwZN1cPfX8

    Video #1, Leaked May 2014.
    Documented by Leo Koehof, the guy associated with Jim Humble who trained the Red Cross in how to treat Malaria with MMS. Bloodtests are recorded on video in this video. Documents Red Cross through the Water Reference Center has refused to release:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jY2yab0uLc

    Serious cancers cured with MMS shared on mainstream Chilean television: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l5bizEG7gs

    10-15 Chlorine dioxide (activated MMS) studies, proving efficacy, but most importantly, safety: https://g2cforum.org/index.php/list/attacks-on-or-criticism-of-genesis-ii-sacraments-and-responses/19939-clo2-mms-is-safe-and-it-is-real-just-do-a-little-research-for-yourself#19939

    FDA wanting 37 years of jailtime for man selling and helping people with MMS, improving peoples lives and ridding them of their suffering with MMS, a solution that cannot be patented and which makes it possible for people to take personal responsibility for their own health vs -a alot- of maladies.

  13. #13 by Lulze Davidson on January 28, 2015 - 10:18

    Typo; the Red Cross MMS vs. Malaria study Uganda 2012 videos where the Red Cross cured 154 cases of Malaria with MMS in 48 hours (because the study lasted two days and it took 24 hours for the bloodtests to come back, which all came back negative) were uploaded/leaked in 2013, not 2014.

    MMS cured Malaria in 4 hours with a 100% success in each and every case, when following the recommended protocol.

  14. #14 by Rebs on February 13, 2015 - 09:28

    Almost fell out of my chair laughing! Fancy just doing human experiments as you please. It’s ok though because they were Africans.

    Marshall, your patience is an inspiration.

  15. #15 by Pepijn van Erp on March 16, 2015 - 16:18

    The alleged trial with MMS against malaria in Uganda as mentioned by Lulze Davidson (#12,#13) is definitely not a proper clinical trial. The Ugandan Red Cross Society was probably misled by the organizers, Leo Koehof and Klaas Proesmans, and it would be better if they would tell the world what really happened.
    In 2013 I have given my view on this matter in a couple of posts on my blog , see http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2013/06/what-did-the-ugandan-red-cross-society-know-about-the-miracle-solution-to-defeat-malaria-video/ Jim Humble also shows up in the comments

  16. #16 by william on April 16, 2015 - 03:01

    this guy has no idea of what he’s talking about. Obviously has no knowledge of chemistry, and anything but humble. He’s careless and crass about the people he claimed to have treated.

  17. #17 by Chris on June 2, 2015 - 00:35

    Things are happening in the USA.

    First someone has been convicted for selling the stuff:
    http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/05/u-s-miracle-mineral-solution-seller-convicted/

    Now some of the websites promoting torturing children with autism with bleach up the bum have disappeared:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/29/a-dunning-kruger-manifesto-about-vaccines-and-autism/#comment-401416

    Also some folks protested that kind of torture at a quackfest last week:
    http://skeptibeard.com/2015/05/26/kerri-rivera-mms/

  18. #19 by Kathy Heyne on October 29, 2016 - 16:50

    I’m listening to this in October 2016 in Australia. This dangerous snake oil has killed people yet you can still buy it online here.

  19. #20 by Derek on September 17, 2017 - 17:55

    This was absolutely harrowing, especially since I had heard some of the other quacks from later episodes mention MMS so casually… there are truly no depths to the thoughts we can entertain.

    I used to find nothing but humour in Eli Bosnick’s joke of ‘I will fuck away your lyme disease’ but honestly it seems the only reason that doesn’t sell it lack of ambition… kind of dulls the joke for me now.

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