Skeptics with a K: Episode #163


In this ridiculous and overlong episode of Skeptics with a K, Mike, Marsh, and Alice are joined by special guest host Laurie from the Merseyside Skeptics Society to talk about what happened at the public homeopathy consultation by Liverpool Clinical Commissioning Group.

Add your voice to the consultation process at http://www.liverpooltalkshealth.info/homeopathy.

Play
  1. #1 by Chris on December 17, 2015 - 14:35

    I think they have updated the homeopathy survey. It now includes a mandatory question asking your postcode!

  2. #2 by Mike on December 17, 2015 - 14:49

    So tell them! πŸ™‚ Doesn’t matter if it’s outside Liverpool.

  3. #3 by Bill on December 17, 2015 - 15:48

    Agree entirely with your work tackling the nonsense of homeopathy, but rubbishing the term ‘patient centred’ may be counterproductive. Medicine may be reasonably criticised for being paternalistic and efforts to encourage negotiation and shared decision making with patients are reasonably described as being patient centred. Often there are treatment options available ( homeopathy is not an effective treatment option ) and patients informed values and attitudes should reasonably guide them in their option choice.

  4. #4 by Sam on December 18, 2015 - 06:51

    Of course that many people use homeopathy! In fact it is safe to say that 100 % of all living creature that drunk water in their existence used homeopathy (due to water memory)!

  5. #5 by Marsh on December 18, 2015 - 11:17

    @Bill I think (though I haven’t listened back to the show, so can’t remember our wording) our point wasn’t to ridicule the term ‘patient centred’, but to rubbish the attempts by homeopaths to claim the term as unique or special to homeopathy. As the first thing to say in justification for homeopathy it is ridiculous, because it says nothing at all about homeopathy, and it’s a property that good medicine generally ought to have anyway.

    I know that’s what I had in mind when I was talking about patient centred, but perhaps it didn’t come across clearly enough.

  6. #6 by ExMachina on December 18, 2015 - 20:43

    Iscador is mentioned a couple of times and you say isn’t not a homeopathic remedy, but neither is it a cure for cancer… right?

  7. #7 by astrotimer on December 19, 2015 - 05:50

    so if there is no homeopathy according to homeopaths in America and Australia, is that where it is most powerful.

  8. #8 by Marsh on December 19, 2015 - 12:12

    astrotimer :

    so if there is no homeopathy according to homeopaths in America and Australia, is that where it is most powerful.

    Correct – it’s made from mistletoe, and it’s anthroposophic. It was invented by Rudolf Steiner, who believed that because mistletoe grows on trees “like a cancer”, it must be useful for treating cancer. It isn’t.

  9. #9 by Chappy Charlie on December 21, 2015 - 11:58

    Interesting that the homeopathy supporters have the same grasp of the concept of debate as they do of science. Turning the exercise in to a who can shout the loudest contest seems fairly indicative of people who know that ultimately they have no argument to defend. Respect to all of you for enduring what must have been a thoroughly unpleasant experience.

  10. #10 by Jason on December 21, 2015 - 13:14

    I have a bit of CD on the Survey and the postcode. Personally I think that the respondents should be users of the NHS in Merseyside (or whatever region) Although its nice to get as many voices as possible, imagine of certain pro homeopathy twitter users get there minions across the globe to fill it in?

    To be honest I really hope that the CCG take personal opinions out of the decision making process and actually engage some basic scientific enquiry … but as a Public Servant myself, I know that can’t and won’t happen

  11. #11 by Jason on December 21, 2015 - 13:23

    Chappy Charlie :
    Interesting that the homeopathy supporters have the same grasp of the concept of debate as they do of science. Turning the exercise in to a who can shout the loudest contest seems fairly indicative of people who know that ultimately they have no argument to defend. Respect to all of you for enduring what must have been a thoroughly unpleasant experience.

    The yellow piece of paper reminds me of every online discussion with a homeopathy supporter, replace the piece of paper with a hyperlink to some irrelevant webpage

    The real shame tis the CCG did not take control of the situation, and the Pro side of the argument are all to aware that they will be allowed to take control

  12. #12 by Jason on December 21, 2015 - 14:27

    Jason :
    imagine of certain pro homeopathy twitter users get there minions across the globe to fill it in?
    d won’t happen

    As they have here https://twitter.com/sohhomeopathy/status/678889040461058049

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